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Green the Desert podcast

With Louis De Jaeger as host

The desertification of the world is one of the biggest threats to humanity. In this podcast series, we explore how we can turn the desert green again and how we stop the desert from taking over vulnerable land.

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We talk about successful projects worldwide, about which projects failed, interview scientists and entrepreneurs who are making the difference and most and for all how you can make a difference yourself.

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Episodes

In this episode of Green the Desert, host Louis De Jaeger speaks with Dorothy Aseyo, Executive Director of the Green Belt Movement, one of Africa’s environmental organizations. Dorothy shares the movement’s mission to combat desertification through grassroots action, community empowerment, and ecological restoration — continuing the legacy of Nobel Peace Prize laureate Wangari Maathai. She offers deep insights into the watershed approach to ecosystem restoration, the power of community engagement, and how technology is being used to monitor and scale impact. This episode dives into: • The importance of celebrating conservation efforts to sustain motivation • The value chain approach to environmental investment • Stories of transformation across communities • The need for global solidarity in facing climate change • Dorothy’s own inspiring journey in the field of regeneration A conversation about hope, leadership, and the grounded work of healing both land and society.

Episode 5

Green Belt Movement: From Ground to Growth

With guest

Dorothy Aseyo

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In this episode of Green the Desert, Werner Sels shares his remarkable journey from a successful IT career to leading ambitious desert regeneration projects. He reveals how his non-profit blends smart economic models with deep ecological impact – and why true success depends on empowering local communities, especially women. You’ll discover: • How sustainable land restoration is transforming lives and landscapes • The real-world economics of CO2 certification and tree-planting challenges • The surprising potential of tree products like Arabic gum • Why biodiversity isn’t optional – it’s essential for long-term success • Creative, community-led strategies that make reforestation truly work Werner doesn’t just talk about planting trees – he talks about planting futures. Tune in for an honest, hopeful conversation about restoring ecosystems, creating lasting value, and inspiring the next generation of land stewards.

Episode 4

From Tech to Regenerating Deserts: Werner Sels’ Journey

With guest

Werner Sels

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Chris Reij, an expert in desert restoration, shares his insights on sustainable land restoration in areas adjacent to deserts, such as the Sahel region. He emphasises the importance of working in areas with higher rainfall and population densities to maximise impact. Chris discusses his background in soil and water conservation and the breakthroughs he witnessed in Burkina Faso, where farmers improved and adopted traditional techniques, leading to the restoration of degraded land. He also highlights the remarkable re-greening phenomenon in Niger, where farmers spontaneously protected and managed on-farm trees, resulting in the transformation of 5 million hectares of land. In this conversation, Chris Reij discusses the success stories of regreening efforts in Africa, particularly in Niger and Malawi. He emphasises the importance of farmer-led initiatives and the role of communication in spreading these success stories. Reij highlights the need for a shift in mindset from project-based approaches to process-based approaches, focusing on replicable and low-cost techniques. He also addresses the challenges of outdated forestry legislation and the need for agricultural development policies that support integrated farming systems. Reij concludes by emphasising the multiple benefits of increasing on-farm tree numbers and the potential for scaling up regreening efforts in Africa.

Episode 3

Farmers are key to stopping the desert

With guest

Chris Reij

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Allan Savory talks about his method for bringing life back to the desert using animals, especially large plant-eating ones. He strongly believes that cows and other livestock are not just part of the solution, but THE solution. According to Savory, the decline of biodiversity, desertification, and climate change are all linked, and conventional methods like planting trees or using machines won't cut it. He stresses the importance of looking at land management as a whole, taking into account the culture, economy, and needs of the local community. Savory also discusses the shortcomings of institutions and the necessity of involving citizens in policy-making. He believes that even if his method fails, the cost of trying it is minimal, but if successful, it could save countless lives and businesses. Savory underscores the role of agriculture in addressing global issues and the importance of using animals to reverse desertification. He explains that his approach draws from military management principles and highlights the need to break down complex problems into manageable parts. He also debunks the idea that veganism is the ultimate solution to environmental and ethical issues, emphasizing the need to consider the bigger picture and the long-term sustainability of the environment. However, veganism can be a valid choice in climates that are humid enough.

Episode 2

We need cows & new policy to reverse desertification

With guest

Allan Savory

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The first episode of the Green the Desert podcast features Geoff Lawton, a permaculture expert who has been working on regenerative projects in desert areas for over 20 years. The conversation focuses on techniques to green the desert and restore degraded landscapes. Key topics include water harvesting, planting hardy species, and the importance of reducing evaporation. Lawton emphasizes the need to trap every drop of water and create water systems that store and distribute it effectively. He also discusses the use of spiky trees as initial pioneers and the transition to less hardy, more productive species over time. The episode concludes with a discussion on the timeline for planting productive trees and the potential for reducing or eliminating irrigation in the long term. In this conversation, Louis De Jaeger and Geoff discuss the importance of water harvesting and regenerative agriculture in desert restoration. They explore the concept of using water harvesting techniques on a larger area to compensate for irrigation needs, with the magic number being 20 times the area of intense production. They also discuss the role of animals, particularly goats and camels, in the regeneration process and how they can help with reforesting. Geoff emphasizes the importance of collaboration with local communities and the need to start small and prove the concept before scaling up. He also highlights the significance of understanding the natural processes and the potential for greening the desert to have a positive impact on the entire planet.

Episode 1

Trapping Water: The Key to Greening the Desert

With guest

Geoff Lawton

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